55 | Ruth Shelton on creating and running the Sacred Ally program

Camille (00:00)
Welcome to in the clinic with Camille. My name is Camille Freeman. I am a registered herbalist and licensed nutritionist, and in this podcast, I share tips and tricks that might be helpful for other practitioners. Today, I am super excited to bring to you an interview that I did with Ruth Shelton. Ruth, who also goes by the empirical herbalist, is a consulting herbalist and teacher who works out of her Apothecary in East Tennessee. Her herbal adventure origin story began over 20 years ago when she had a realization on the way to a job that was not very fulfilling, and she's been steadily studying and working ever since. I really wanted to bring Ruth in so we could hear more about a program that she ran in 2022, how she came up with the idea for this program, what she learned from doing it, and to provide some ideas and inspiration for those of us who might be interested in putting together our own classes and programs. So let me share with you this.

Camille (00:55)
Interview I hope you enjoy. Okay, so we are here with Ruth Shelton. I'm so excited about this conversation. Ruth, would you start out and just tell us a little bit more about your practice and your Apothecary right now?

Ruth Shelton (01:19)
Yes. So my apothecary is in Powell, Tennessee. It's in East Tennessee. And I stock about 230 herbs, and I do custom formulas for people based on their consultations. And then I have what I call selections of my greatest hits for people who aren't looking for something custom, whether it's time, budget, or whatever, and they can just purchase straight from the website or a set up at local markets kind of around the East Tennessee area.

Camille (01:52)
Got it.

Ruth Shelton (01:52)
I teach classes, and I do a little bit of everything. I feel like.

Camille (01:57)
Now, when you work with clients, are they coming to your space or you doing those virtually, or how do you work that?

Ruth Shelton (02:04)
I do them both, depending on whatever people would like. Before the pandemic, I had an office space in a natural healing community, and then the pandemic hit, and everybody did different stuff. So I pulled everything back to the Apothecary. And earlier this summer, we had kind of a tragedy at our house where our basement flooded, which was incredibly stressful. But I got to turn the den into a classroom, and that's where I do all of my classes in more casual settings. We have comfy sofas and chairs and can kind of spread out and do lots of classes, especially for, like, cooking classes and tasting classes. It's a lot more fun than sitting at a table in the apothecary.

Camille (02:48)
Okay, wonderful. And how long have you been running the Apothecary and or seeing clients?

Ruth Shelton (02:55)
The apothecary when we moved, I guess about seven and a half years ago. But I've been seeing clients unofficially. I started seeing clients about 15 years ago. Officially. More like ten years ago.

Camille (03:11)
Yeah. When people ask me how long I've been practicing. I'm the same. I'm like it depends on how you want to say started.

Ruth Shelton (03:16)
Exactly.

Camille (03:17)
I don't find that.

Ruth Shelton (03:19)
Yeah, and, like, people that I know are random strangers found me. It's very different.

Camille (03:25)
Okay, great. Well, the reason I wanted to have you on specifically today is to talk about a program that you've been running, which sound when you described it to me, it sounds so interesting, and I love hearing about things people are doing that are a little bit outside of the box or that combine herbalist work with a different interest. And so I really wanted to talk to you more about your Sacred Ally program and just dive into some of the details in case it's helpful for other practitioners to get some ideas for things they could do.

Ruth Shelton (03:54)
Okay.

Camille (03:55)
Could you just start off and tell us about the program? Like, what is it? What does it look like from the participants perspective?

Ruth Shelton (04:03)
Yes. So I guess from the participants, it is a monthly class. They come to the classroom that we created, and we do a deep dive into a very specific plant, and we talk about everything from mythology, lore, magical associations, medicinal food, growing the plant, what it looks like relative to the plant, and we just go as deep as we can. We also have an exercise in every single class that relates to the plant. So they're completely different. It depends on the plant. We've done yoga exercises, we've done drumming. We had a little dance party for lavender. It just depends on the plant. Different things come up, and so it's just a way to get a different association with the healing aspect of the plant. And we always have food and tea and I don't know, we just have a really good time. This is still a lot of fun.

Camille (05:09)
So you're meeting with folks once a month. Is that what's happening?

Ruth Shelton (05:12)
Yes. And it's all in person. I've not done anything except in person for this series, and it started in January 22, and it was supposed to end in December 22, but I had an add on class in January. It was just this plant. It was pretty insistent that I needed to talk about this plant, and so we added it on, and I'm sure I'm going to be adding on extra class, and I'm just calling them sacred allies. Add ons.

Camille (05:43)
Okay. What was the extra plant that couldn't help but show up?

Ruth Shelton (05:46)
Lemon bomb.

Camille (05:47)
Oh, love it.

Ruth Shelton (05:48)
Yes. It was a beautiful plant, and I was very humbled because it was one of the first plants I started using 20 years ago. But things I had not put together in those 20 years was just like, oh, this now makes so much more sense. Thank you.

Camille (06:06)
And so how long are you together on the days that you're meeting?

Ruth Shelton (06:11)
It depends. So the way the classes got divided up, well, it came to me, I guess the idea for the class came to me over a long period of time during the pandemic, I would take daily walks, and a friend of mine would come over and occasionally we would talk about different things. And I was doing kind of a personal therapy session online, and I was doing them in my Apothecarry. And as we would talk about stuff, different plants would pop up in my head, oh, this would be helpful for this, and this would be helpful for this. It's kind of, I don't know, like herbalizing myself, which we don't really do a lot in our business. And I would be talking to my friend about it, and she was like, oh, I didn't know you could use that for any of that stuff. Because it's always like, what herb is good for psoriasis. What herb is good for this? And I was like, oh, no herb is ever good for just one thing ever. And it just kind of like set in my head. And I was like, I really want to do massively deep dives with people.

Ruth Shelton (07:14)
And also, I think everything about the plant is important. So the entire use from prehistory on, I think it's just important what we can learn about it. And so everything just kind of popped in my head one day, and I was sitting at the table, and I had the sheet of paper, and I just divided it into three parts, and I just listed exactly which plants, and it was like, trees, flowers, herbs, these are the ones we're going to talk about. It's in this order. And it just kind of blossomed and bloomed from there. The way it got divvied up, fit the seasons, everything, it was just kind of perfect. And even the way the trees listed out, because it was very like I was downloading it, it wasn't me being clever. I was just like, oh, this is perfect. And like, I ended the tree with linden, and then we started up with rose, and then everything just flowed really nicely. Yeah, it was beautiful.

Camille (08:18)
I love that. So you pick one every month for a deep dive? Yes. Were you meeting for several hours? It seems like this would not be like an hour long class.

Ruth Shelton (08:31)
Yes. So at the beginning of each of those beginning sessions, trees was like a three and a half hour start because we had to talk about what heck trees did in general. Right. And then flower rose was the same way, and then when we did the herbs so the beginning of each block would be like about a three hour class, three and a half hour class. And then each individual one usually is about two, two and a half hours. Kind of depended on the exercise that we did and the questions that people had. And obviously some plants had a lot more information. Not all plants are culinary plants. You don't do a lot of cooking with oak, but we talked about acorns and we did recipes. It would kind of depend on which plant, if it went longer, and I tend to talk a lot. We went really long, and I felt that it was okay. Like, I had food and encouraged everybody to bring their own food. And it was just kind of a whole morning session each time, and then they could shock the Apothecarry. It was like a day out for everybody.

Ruth Shelton (09:38)
And I think after the pandemic, getting out and being around like minded people, it was a breath of fresh air for all of us.

Camille (09:48)
So you got this sort of download and came up with a plan. How did you think about who to invite or who would be the perfect person to join?

Ruth Shelton (09:57)
I had no idea if anyone would want to do it. I really had no idea, because during the pandemic, we'd all try different types of glasses and outdoor classes and math only. And, you know, and I was like, I don't know if anybody is even going to be interested. But I really felt like it had to be in person because the nature of the class, the revelations that people would have, like, I've always liked this plant. I had no idea why or My grandmother grew this plant. So I really wanted to create this intimate gathering. So I just did a video and posted to social media. And I was like, who's in? You can sign up. Initially, you had to sign up for an entire block for the whole year. And then later I was like, that's not fair. Not everybody can afford to sign up for a whole block. Nobody has the time to sign. So it's like you could just allocate and pick however you wanted to do it. But pretty much once someone took one class, they were like, I had no idea any of this. And then I would do, like, specials.

Ruth Shelton (10:59)
Like, well, if you sign up for the rest, I'll give you this amount often. And I know it sounds cheesy, but we all got really connected, and it was a lovely experience. It was like everybody who was here was completely meant to be here together. And one person signed up. She had misread because I posted everything on social media and then posted on the website, and we do, like, little blurbs. And one person assumed it was an online class, and so she signed up for one she wanted to take. And I was like, oh, it's not online. It's in person. She's like, Well, I can't take that one. And I was like, oh, I'll refund it. She's like, I'll come to lavender. I don't really want to do lavender, but I'll come to lavender. I was like, if you don't like it, I'll gladly refund your money. And she was like, this is the greatest class I've ever taken. And it was just amazing. It was so fun. So she ended up doing the rest of the series, and she has three small children. She was like, this is my time. It was so cool.

Camille (12:04)
So do you think the reason that it resonated with people so much was because there was that learning component, but there was also the hands on and the community.

Ruth Shelton (12:11)
Yes. And every single class, whatever we did, everybody got to take something home with them to play with. So the whole point was, if you're going to learn about these plants, you need to learn about all aspects of the plant. But I can tell you all day long, but if you don't do anything with it, it doesn't matter. It's just an educational process so they would all get to experience. And I think everyone talking about, like, oh, I really like this flavor of this tea. Why do I like this better hot? Why do I like this better cold? And then the next session, we would talk about, did anybody have an experience when you were using this tincture or this glyceride or whatever? And then we'd be like, oh, my gosh, I found the greatest recipe for blah, blah, blah. And just everything worked so well together. Everybody getting along. And I think also we are all a little bit quirky on the rest of the world. It's not like everybody's like, let me tell you, the history of Rose. But everybody was just really excited. It was totally something different. It was just different than anything I've seen offered in our industry at all in 20 years.

Ruth Shelton (13:28)
And it was here in my little Knoxville.

Camille (13:32)
Yeah. So how many people did you wind up having? For most of the sessions, I talked.

Ruth Shelton (13:37)
It out at ten because I wanted it to remain kind of intimate and I wanted everyone to feel safe. And almost the first couple of classes, I think we had six. And then, of course, it was a whole year long, so there will be some classes where it's like, oh, so and so is on vacation, so and so has COVID. So it would be small, but pretty much we stayed at about eight to ten for the entirety of the series.

Camille (14:04)
Okay.

Ruth Shelton (14:04)
Which I thought was good.

Camille (14:05)
Yeah, that felt like a good number for you.

Ruth Shelton (14:07)
Yes. And anybody doing this, you could totally go larger. And it depends on what aspects of the plants. But having it small and intimate, it was just really nice, especially when we were talking mugworth and even lavender, like, talking about trauma associated with those plants and how those plants work on trauma in the body and the mind. It was nice for people to feel safe, like they could express questions or experiences they had. Had. Yeah.

Camille (14:41)
Got it. And so from a marketing and promotion standpoint, did you only use social media in my newsletter?

Ruth Shelton (14:51)
That was it.

Camille (14:51)
In your newsletter. Okay. And can you tell folks about the frequency? So did you just post it once and people signed up, or did you have to kind of keep promoting it, or what was that like?

Ruth Shelton (15:02)
It was strange. So I did, like, a newsletter and then a post and a video, and I don't do videos often, so that I think was kind of new. So more people watched it because, oh, it's her actual face, because I'm more of a written person. So I did that. And then we had six people sign up for the tree session, and then I didn't do anything else. I would show, like, pictures of things that we did in the class or, like, food that I'd made for the class, because all the food rusties were very different. When we did marigold, I made this amazing gluten free, dairy free chocolate iced brownie with marigold and different chilies. And it was just the greatest thing. It was so beautiful, and it was true. I used cornflower instead of flour. It was just the most amazing thing. They were so delicious. So I would just post stuff like that or just little clips of teas or talk about things, and then people started talking, and then people were like, oh, we want to check this out.

Camille (16:16)
Got it.

Ruth Shelton (16:17)
I would just do, like, oh, I've got two spaces open for rows. Anybody want that kind of stuff? And they would fill up.

Camille (16:25)
And how much were you charging per.

Ruth Shelton (16:27)
Session, each class, individually, I can't remember what it was for the whole series. If you signed up, everything was discounted. If you sign up, everything at once, and then each block had a discounted price. But each class, if you bought it, Alicart, was just $59. Okay, so very affordable. And everybody had notes, and everybody took home recipes. And if you took the entire series, I gave out a notebook that I created that people could put in there. But once people started doing Alicia, it was not affordable for me to do that for everyone.

Camille (17:06)
Okay. When you look back at the full year, what do you think of as the highlights or the reasons that you're really glad you did this?

Ruth Shelton (17:16)
Everything was such a highlight. The individual plants, even ones I was very familiar with, like, Dandelion is my favorite plant. It is like, my model on all of my labeling, everything, but even researching further, like, the knowledge that I gained from going in further with the plants, watching people, I love that AHA moment. And we're talking in class, and they're like, that was just beautiful. And some of them are plants that never get talked about or only get talked about in little tiny tidbits or whatever. And so I felt like, I don't know, it sounds cheesy, but, like, I was introducing them to people and sometimes people who would have never I mean, there were lots of people that were like, oh, I would never take this class. But so and so said it would be really good. And just watching them work, like watching the plants work with the people, it was just it was beautiful. I loved it. It saved me last year. It truly saved me.

Camille (18:28)
It felt like a fulfilling endeavor.

Ruth Shelton (18:33)
Yes. And just like, I don't know the way the plants would show up at the exact right time for multiple people, if not everyone in the class. It was beautiful to see. I didn't know this was going to happen, but guess what? Marigold, particularly, I was like, I did not know anything about this, about marigold. This is quite interesting. It was good. And it's the African Marigold. I talked about both like, colendala and the tejeets, but we spent most of the time talking about tejitz or simbasuchi is the Aztec name for marigold.

Camille (19:15)
Wow. Okay. And so what are your next steps? Are you going to do this again in 2023? Are you just going to do add ons as you go? Or what are you thinking moving forward?

Ruth Shelton (19:26)
Well, I talked to everybody at the class just to see what they were because multiple people have been like, can you do it again and do different herbs? It took a lot of time and prep for each class. I mean, I'm like a research dork too, so I would be like, I'm reading 13 books on roses today. This is what I'm going to do. So it took a lot of prep. So I don't have time to do another complete series this year, so I'm just going to do, like, some Addons. And I was talking to the people at class, and they really would like me to do an online version for people who don't live here. And so I think I'm going to look into launching that. But I listened to your podcast, so I know that you were talking about make sure that you have a good group to cast this net if you're going to invest in doing online education. And so I'm working on building that, I guess, profile so I can do it and not sync the business too much.

Camille (20:29)
Yeah, well, the nice thing is, if people are asking you for it and if you've already done the research for a lot of these classes, that does.

Camille (20:37)
Lower the bar a little bit in.

Camille (20:40)
Terms of the expenses and how you weigh out whether it makes sense to do it.

Ruth Shelton (20:46)
Yes. And I was thinking about having an option where you could each class had different things to take home. So, like, when we studied cedar, everybody got cedar blocks to Whittle. I could mail you a package of things with cedar tea, or you could just do it on your own. But I really think the experience, the personal experience with each of the herbs is very vital to this whole class.

Camille (21:20)
Yes. You know what I love about this so much, Ruth, is that you just got the idea and gave it a try. And I feel like a lot of people have the idea, but then moving from the idea to giving it a try is where people get stalled a little bit. I don't know if you have any advice for folks who might have an idea, a little kernel of something in terms of how to just bring it into the world or anything you'd share with those folks.

Ruth Shelton (21:49)
Well, like I said, I'm a geek about things. And I really kept hearing if you build it, they will come from Field of Dreams. And truly, I've had so many classes that failed. Like no one signed up the previous year, like miserable classes. But I just had to have faith that it was going to be okay and that somebody would come. And they did. And everybody came who was supposed to come. So if you have this idea to do something, it's not there just randomly. You should follow through, try it. And you don't have to commit to anything like an entire twelve month project. Just do it. Literally, do it.

Camille (22:35)
I love that you brought up that you've had ideas before that haven't worked. Because I think we hear about these successes. We hear about the things that did work and the perfect people and it was so fulfilling. And then there's all the things that led up to that, which is like, oh, I had this great idea and nobody else thought it was great.

Ruth Shelton (22:51)
Oh yeah, so many things that I'm like, this is going to be the class that puts me on the map and everybody is going to love this. And cricket. Like, literally nothing. And then people are like, why did you cancel that class? I'm like, no one's, not no. And it was the same marketing. It was, you know, maybe even marketed better. You know, sometimes I'll do flyers and, you know, do all kinds and like, nope, not right. And whether it was just the topic was totally off, not the right time, I don't know. But you got to keep on going.

Camille (23:23)
Keep on going. Yes, I love it. Are there any last things you would say to somebody? Advice to herbalist who want to offer something similar or their own twists or their own creative idea? Any suggestions in terms of things you would do differently? How to promote it, how to prepare for the classes, anything along those lines that you want to share with folks?

Ruth Shelton (23:44)
I wish I had gotten more research done on the front end instead of I'll be like, oh, I'll have plenty of time, and then get hit with clients or a kid has an issue or something. I'm like, I have 4 hours to figure out how to do all of these things. So prep would be great the more time you can get ahead of it. I wish I'd finished at least one tree before I launched the class. But I was worried that if I do all this research and nobody comes, nobody's going. I'm just out all this time. But yeah, so to get a little bit ahead, to give yourself a little cushion would be nice. Because there were some classes. Like, I was writing it the Friday before the Saturday when people showed up. And that was not fun. I don't think it showed in the final work, but I felt it like, in every bit of my body, it would have been nice to have done it, but yeah, and just I don't know. I'm not a good promoter of myself. I'm horrible at it. I'm just awful at so find somebody to help cheer leads you along.

Ruth Shelton (24:54)
And what does that be? Your hype person. That would be helpful to have a hype person and just do it. And if it doesn't work, save all the prep work that you've done and then maybe do it again. I tried to do a mushroom class and no one wanted to do it. And now everybody's like, have you thought about doing a mushroom class? I'm like, actually, I have it all written. Yes. I'll do that later this year.

Camille (25:19)
I love it. I love it. Well, this was so fun. And I love hearing how this manifested and came into being and all the ideas and juicy little bits of the behind the scenes pieces. So if people want to learn more about you or follow along with what you're doing next, how can they get in touch or follow your work?

Ruth Shelton (25:42)
My Facebook page, it's just the empirical herbalist. My website is the empirical herbalist.com TikToks, the empirical herbalist anything. And it's empirical. I know it's a weird word, but I thought it was very clever. And it will always be the imperfect club list, no matter how many times people try to tell me not to keep it. But yeah, you can find me on all of those social media instagram. That's probably the best way if anybody's in the east Tennessee Kentucky area. I do have kind of an interesting class option coming up in the summer. I'm going to be teaching a two day course at LMU lincoln memorial university on herbalism in appalachia. And we're going to do a deep dive in the history, the immigration, the flora and fauna, and then you actually get to make stuff and take home with you. So it's going to be really cool.

Camille (26:45)
Fine. Wonderful. Well, I can put links to all of that in the notes for the podcast if people want to do easy click. And I just thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Ruth Shelton (26:56)
Thank you so much, Camille. It was so fun and so great to see you.

Camille (26:59)
You're welcome.

Camille (27:10)
Thanks for listening to in the clinic with Camille.

Camille (27:13)
Hey, did you know that I write.

Camille (27:15)
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Camille (27:24)
Love to have you join us there.